Adoption Under One Roof - Comments for "Guest Blog: California’s Proposition 8 Affects Families"

Thank you Amyadoptee - very

Thank you Amyadoptee - very insightful.

I debated whether or not to say anything.

What is the purpose of marriage? I know that I would like to think my purpose in my marriage is more than procreation. To be honest, I can't procreate anymore. I am too old and no longer have a uterus. I know. Too much information. So does that give my husband the right to dissolve our marriage? Marriage isn't just about sex. Its about a relationship between two people. For me, its husband and wife. Its about a relationship between parent and child or children.

Who exactly defines a marriage? Is it God? Is it man? Is it law? I feel that the definition of marriage between man and woman is discriminating. It separates just as adoptee access does for adoptees. It discriminates on the basis of sexual preference as does the status of my birth. I try my hardest to look at people as humans. I do not judge on the basis of sex, sexual preference, skin tone, color of their eyes, the size of their bodies, and many other goofy things that people judge others on. Separate is not equal as proved in Brown vs. Board of Education.

I was lucky in the military as I served with a lesbian friend. She was a very very dear friend of mine. I did not fight in a war just for the heterosexuals in this country. I fought for all including the adoption industry and gays. Including gay/lesbians across this country. She fought too. Is she deserving of less than I receive in rights as an American citizen? No she doesn't. Would I want her denied the same rights that I have? No. I think what this battle is about is about equal treatment under the law. Adoptees just like gays do not want more rights but equal rights.

I apologize for leaving you to stand alone

Hi Cal,

I am a lesbian living with my partner and internationally adopted daughter in the middle of the U.S. I was raised in Southern Cal. I contributed to the fight in Cal and I was so disappointed when ban was voted in.

I love to read how articulate you are in expressing the frustration of our community. I would have responded earlier, but life is busy when you are trying to shuttle your child to basketball practice, soccer academy and be the coach of her 7/8 year old soccer team. I am fortunate to live in a community where life is good and I have neighbors that respect my partner and I. Our life is more about being part of our community. I feel like I am representative of our community everyday in the burbs. I feel like we have to hold a higher standard and parent above the line, because of who we are.

This year I got a great gift. My partner got to legally adopt our daughter! Now this is not something that I can run advertising in the paper, as we don't know how long it will last. I would not want to ruin it for other families. We quietly engaged a lawyer, went across the state line and it happened. This was a big relief for me and my partner, as now if anything happens to me, I know our daughter will not be taken from her other "Mama" as she sometimes refers to us when the wrong mom answers.

We love our child and we definitely experience similar issues of other families. My daughter only sees two parents no different and cannot understand why her moms are not legally married. She sees us only with love and excitement that we get to be a family. We pray at mealtime and attend church.

On a final note, I too, am tired of seeing the legitmacy of my relationship questioned and compared to that of marrying a goat. I pay taxes, vote, obey the law, keep my home looking great and contribute to my community. I just wish I could have relationship recognition equal to that of "Civil Marriage."

CalDad - Keep on plugging and thank you for your voice!

It grows back

Cal, you are a good writer. Yes, it is controversial. Yes, folks will plap their gums up and down. I really don't read BAs comments and get a personal attack, just disagreement with an idea being floated (52%). Don't go away! We will survive being reindoctrinated, and you will survive evil antichange people. Hissing is OK, within limits. In the Army I was taught 'never get upset by an a__ chewing, because a__ grows back.' Keep coming back, we need your radical ideas and you need our stodgy thinking. John

Long live the asbestos panties!

Thanks for the comments, Angela.

When I was first approached to write this blog, I said, "no." I was approached a second time and asked to reconsider. While my reaction was to say, "no!" again, I reconsidered. My initial response was not based on fear of what y'all would say. After all, I have been around the block a few times, and even though I am all grown up I still have my asbestos underwear. (God forbid I say panties...who knows what comments that might conjure up!!! Joking here...)

I did not want to write on this topic because I knew how polarizing it was and I knew that no one would stay on topic. This topic was not meant to be a debate on what 52% of the voting population believes or what 48% of the voting population believes. The topic is not about what is better for the "great good," overturning Prop 8, or the presidential election of Barack Obama. This topic was meant, at minimum, to educate readers on how different the laws that protect heterosexual marriages are from same-sex domestic partnerships/civil unions. Despite what people think, gays and lesbians, single or in a couple, are raising children. Differences in the law affect these families regardless of whether they live in California, Ohio, Iowa or Connecticut.

I value each person's perspective, even though for the most part we did not stay on topic (except for Julia's and AngelaW's comments). Given the nature of this topic, I knew people would be passionate about their points of view. I hoped to see this type of interest. However, I was not surprised to see a thinly-veiled assault. Call it what you will, but to accuse/insinuate/imply that because I, the blogger who happens to be a gay man, am a bigot who is force-feeding a "gay agenda" that serves only my self interest, is not only wrong it is insulting.

So, again, I say that if you would like to engage in a discussion regarding the topic, bring it. I have my underwear on!

Angela: I am so glad that you brought up the purpose of marriage. God forbid that I suggest that this holy institution was founded for some other reason. Many argue that marriage was founded for the purpose of procreation. It was not. Marriage is not needed to procreate. Furthermore, if marriage were developed to sanctify procreation, couples who were infertile and those who are no longer of the child-bearing age would not be allowed to marry...again, if this argument were true. Marriage is a civil union that is governed by laws. Deciding who gets the protection and who doesn't is discrimination. Discrimination affects families.

Marriage is Civil Right

I mentioned that I am a Republican. And I honestly don't get why everyone doesn't see marriage is a civil right. If you look at the first colonies landed in the new world... The Purtains didn't allow church marriages. They saw it as a business transaction (ie civil and not religious). Marriage was (and is) about wealth preservation. And this wealth is used to raise the kiddos.

As a Republican, I think the government shouldn't mess in my life too much. There are things that I accept. I love drinking clean water and breathing clean air. I like roads.

And I think that aiding the growth and development of our next generation is good. I think we all need to take responsibility for the future generation. When I was single and without kids, I didn't have any problem with my taxes funding the local school system. I volunteered in an afterschool project to help tutor elementary students.

At this point.... I am going to let my freak flag fly. I don't understand why 2 homosexual men or 4 hetrosexual women aren't allowed into a legal contract (household, partnership, marriage.. whatever the label) that protects and benefits the household. Why is marriage seen as all about "the sex"? Frankly... banding together to raise children in whatever configuration should be supported.

Now I need to go find my asbestos panties because I feel sure someone is going to flame me. That is fine if the dialog doesn't drift into personal insults. I am a big girl and can take the heat.

AngelaW
The ones that you love the most are usually the ones that hurt you the most. - Unknown

My 2 Pennies

As the resident Republican, I don't see anyone pushing a non-liberal or liberal viewpoint. I see them sharing their opinion. And I am pretty sure that you and Faith see eye-to-eye on abortion.

Yes there were personal attacks on you. And there weren't acceptable. Unfortunately the first comment posted on that blog didn't make that clear. There was a follow up later in the thread that mentioned your name and said the attacks weren't appropriate. But it probably wasn't clear enough.

Fortunately you hung around and continue to comment. I like discussing things with you.

Everyone has different triggers because of their background. I didn't see a personal attack with BA's post, but a generic reaction against things that have/are happening in society. So it wasn't a reaction to Cal's blog.

But I get why FM posted the comment. She is reacting based on her knowledge of Cal. And honestly this is his first blog here. We want him to feel comfortable enough to express his opinion. When you posted your first blog, we worried about the same thing. We want you to feel comfortable enough to express your opinion.

John said: "Was BA tired of the view that if we didn't win, it must have been unfair, I am too. I also voted for the other guy, but Obama won and there shouldn't be any argument about that. Prop 8 also won, and that too is per the rules."

I understand this too. But I didn't see this being expressed by Cal. I re-read the blog. He is talking about the aftermath of a change. That is always worth talking about. If we don't understand the impact of change... how are we going to understand each other?

AngelaW
The ones that you love the most are usually the ones that hurt you the most. - Unknown

Huh? What?

FM I respect your views, and admire your wisdom. This time I will say that I think you are all wet. Not too long ago Faith had a post that turned into a discourse on abortion. I was the defender of the idea that babies are not for disposing of, there were several ladies commenting that were far more personal in their attacks on me than BA was on Cal. Not one of you steppped up and laid down the law. That was OK, I guess.

Now BA comes forward with thinking that is quite mainstream, that we agree to the rules in advance and don't crab and moan, and resort to all kinds of extracurricular activities if we don't prevail. Not radical, and not insulting. Was BA tired of the view that if we didn't win, it must have been unfair, I am too. I also voted for the other guy, but Obama won and there shouldn't be any argument about that. Prop 8 also won, and that too is per the rules. That is an attack on the idea that rules only apply if they work for us, not particularly on Cal, it needs to be OK to disagree with ideas. I think that Cal is always interesting, and I enjoy the give and take with him. His views are just as valid as mine.

There can't be two standards FM. Is the rule here that if you are pushing a non-liberal viewpoint, anything goes for the folks who disagree, but if you are putting forth the liberal view, disagreers had better be dainty and nice? John

Response to BA

I get that you disagree with same-sex marriage. I can accept that; each person is entitled to their own viewpoint. However, attacking me personally just because my viewpoint is different from your is unnecessary.

As for you statement, "Get over it. Starting blacklists to destroy people's livelihoods, claiming that black people are bigots for voting against prop 8, what complete self-centered, self-interest. The common good certainly doesn't seem to be on the gay agenda." I am not sure where you got this from my blog or our discussion, but I believe you are reading more into the topic. No one here said anything about black people being bigots. I cannot speak for others on this board, but I have not started an alleged blacklist.

The topic of discussion was theimpact a ban on same-sex marriage has on same-sex couples with children. I would be happy to discuss this with you. Otherwise, I have no further comment.

Respectful debates and discussions are healthy.

A quote from Faith's blog - "A Place for Everyone"

"All viewpoints on adoption are welcome at this site. All we ask is that you focus on the issues without being rude to another person on our site. Keep the focus on the issue, not on bashing another person, and you are welcome to disagree until the cows come home."

http://ouradopt.com/adoption-blog/oct-2008/faitha/place-everyone-adoption-under-one-roof

- FM